Trying to Have a Discussion With a Violent Person, or Was I Merely Trying to Shout Them Down?

I had a most extraordinary experience on facebook today. My own fault. It was none of my business as I intruded on someone else's post after seeing a mutual friend comment on it. The original post:

Dr. Best & I were just discussing the SAW movies and how all the gratuitous violence is nicely contextualized as exacting revenge on a party that would otherwise go through life unscathed. We think it would be way cool if the subject of the next SAW movie was a vivisector, furrier, or trapper who was kept alive just to endure unspeakable torture. And what a wonderful vehicle this would be to bring Animal Liberation to the masses...

I was kind of shocked at the violence indicated and responded in passion...

Violence is not something that should be glorified in any context. Violence is repulsive pornographic evil. Torturing a human or an animal, or even "depicting" it is an abomination. Never saw SAW, but it must be warped sickness on film. Snap out of it!

Thinking more about my own motivation and behavior, I followed up with an apology...

I apologize for my earlier rant. It was a form of verbal violence and I regret it. Passion and an acid pen do not always mix, and it is important to step into the shoes of those with whom we disagree and walk around a bit before we judge. God bless...

And my considered opinion...

I believe humans differ from animals, in part due to our awareness. To consider humans merely animals is to limit acknowledgment of our existence to merely being biological creatures, disregarding the mind altogether. As stewards of the earth, we have a responsibility to treat animals with respect and conserve their lives, but they are here for us, not the other way round. As a contrast, I do not see any possibility of animals, carnivores in particular, having any such discernment. Some of the posters here seem to look at the worst of mankind's behavior and really do not cut themselves, or their neighbors, any slack. Vengeance is a losing game, and I guess I can merely say that I am glad you are not in charge.

And received this in return...

I have not seen such a civil and eloquent statement of human hubris and speciesist arrogance in quite some time. Animals do have a mind not unlike our almighty species, irrespective of your inability to acknowledge such or simply de...sire not to do so. They have their own morality, social systems, they experience empathy, fear, and grief. From the beginning they have resisted oppression at our hands, although in our astounding ignorance, we routinely identify an elephant who has escaped from the circus, a dolphin that kills his captor, or a tiger kills an intruder as rogues... as dumb violent beasts.

Your polite words are nothing more than a justification and rationalization for the subjugation and domination of every nonhuman species on the planet. We are not their custodians -- we have insinuated ourselves into their existence... and as long as your attitude is the prevalent one, I advocate zero population growth and the voluntary extinction of our vile species

And yet I persisted …

Were I to mirror your attitude in defense of my own beliefs, I might suggest, "you first." As things stand, I will say I would defend your right to express yourself, as I believe that you do not actually advocate the murder of individual humans. It may be that you rue our bad choices, and wish that we did not have to make any choices, especially vis a vis animals. Am I close?

Not very charitable, I admit. My antagonist, for now she clearly was, responded...

Peter, by all means, please do suggest "you first." I preach nothing that I do not practice. I am an adherent of voluntary human extinction (i.e., vhemt).

Now let's talk about you. I think that maybe you enjoy the privilege and comfort afforded you as a human and, therefore, it is essential to for you to relegate all other species to objects of lesser value to justify your elitist worldview. Isn't this the same thing white slaveowners did in the antebellum south to allow them to enjoy the objectification and exploitation of African-American slaves? And isn't the rendering of Jews to a less-than-human social status the same mechanism that allowed Nazi Germany to relegate them to concentration camps and gas chambers?

So as you have arbitrarily decided that people deserve some moral consideration from which you have excluded animals, how is your position any different than that of a polite slaveowner or an eloquent Nazi?

And, as far as advocating murder, I am no fool. But I'm sure we can agree that a dead abuser cannot hurt animals.

I could not resist one more salvo...

I am so sorry you have such hate in your head, and will pray that whatever ails you presently will leave you alone so maybe you can actually accomplish something in pursuit of your positions. What you propose is blind to humility, ...humanity, and consideration for anyone including your animals. It appears you would be god. I will read whatever you post next, having no desire to claim the last word of our "discussion," but after that I am about done with this conversation. I wish you the best life can offer, and peace.

And my participation ended on this note, as promised …

funny, it seems you have no desire to defend your hubris, only to criticize our consistency in wanting to eliminate oppressors. good day

Post script

Moral? I suppose it is not to argue on the internet (I am SO bad at observing that!), and that the passion of others can not be fathomed, at least without some face to face discussion, where our humanity is much more evident than it is across the ether (they call it “the cloud” now). In this case, though, I wonder ...